Individual

Go to List of Family Names Go to List of People    < Previous Next >

Birth:          ABT 1115 Holderness, Yorkshire, England

Notes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=jweber&id=I05561
Ancestral Roots has Agnes m. Adam II de Brus, but that has been changed.

The following two posts to soc.genealogy.medieval indicate that the "accepted" order 
of wives for Adam I & II de Brus should actually be reversed:

From: Rosie Bevan (rbevan AT paradise.net.nz)
Subject: Re: Domesday Descendants corrections: Harcourt & Brus
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Date: 2002-06-05 18:38:09 PST

Hi Cris

As you have commented, K. Keats-Rohan in Domesday Descendants [p.354, 355] has 
listed Adam I de Brus of Skelton(d.1142) as married to Agnes of Aumale, and Adam II 
Brus (d.1196) as married to Juetta de Arches. This is in variance with Farrer's 
observations in vol. 3 of Early Yorkshire Charters in which the opposite placement is 
upheld. The situation is not helped by CP which claims [VII : 670] that Agnes of 
Aumale married William de Roumare and secondly Piers de Brus.

A study of the chronology tends to support K-R's findings.

Stephen de Aumale, Agnes' father, came of age in 1090, indicating that he was born 
about 1069. He married Hawise de Mortemer and they had 3 sons (William, Ingelram 
and Stephen) and 3 or 4 daughters (Matilda, Adelisa are names of two), of whom 
Agnes was supposedly the youngest. and about 1127.[CP VII : 670 ; K-R Domesday 
Descendants p.225]. Stephen's son and heir is mentioned in a charter of 1115. [EYC 
3; no 1304]. Assuming this is William le Gros, he was born before 1109, as he was of 
age in 1130. At a rough guess based on the dates of William le Gros, as a younger 
child Agnes would have been born between 1110-1120. This would place her more 
appropriately as wife of Adam I, than Adam II, as the latter was born in 1134 (of age in 
1155). On the death of Adam I de Brus she had borne two sons - Adam and William. 
Adam the younger was placed in the custody of William le Gros, Count of Aumale.

The only piece of evidence which supports a marriage between the Brus/Aumale 
families is the claim in 1276, on the death of Avelina de Forz without issue, some 150 
years after the supposed event, of the four coheirs of Peter de Brus to the Holderness 
estate. Walter de Fauconberg and Agnes, Marmaduke Thweng and Lucy, Margaret 
widow of Robert de Ros, John de Bella Aqua and Laderina claimed to be heirs by 
descent from Agnes de Aumale.

Agnes de Aumale married [secondly] William de Roumare and had three sons (William, 
Robert and Roger) by him before his death in 1151 [K-R DD: p.670]. The eldest, 
William later Earl of Lincoln was still a minor in 1165 so was born later than 1144. This 
certainly fits within the chronology as Adam I died in 1142.

-snip-

Cheers

Rosie

Note; I corrected the above message, based on a later correcting post by Rosie; the 
original message said that Stephen de Aumale succeeded his father who d. in 1127, 
when Stephen himself d. in 1127.

-------------------------

From: Cristopher Nash (c AT windsong.u-net.com)
Subject: Re: Domesday Descendants corrections: Harcourt & Brus
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Date: 2002-06-08 04:13:25 PST

Now I can quickly summarize the argument of Ruth Blakely, 'The Bruses of Skelton 
and William of Aumale' in _Yorks Archeol Jnl_ (2001) 73:19-28, which appears to be 
the clincher leading Keats-Rohan in DD to reverse the traditional order of two early 
Brus marriages, giving (1) the wife of Adam I de Brus as Agnes d'Aumale and (2) the 
wife of Adam II de Brus as Juetta de Arches. Blaklely's article is devoted specifically 
to this double question.

-snip-

On Agnes d'Aumale: Again Blakely starts with William Brown's reversal. A claim to the 
Aumale estate put forward in 1274 by the heirs of Peter III de Brus has regularly been 
accepted in evidence that the later Bruses were descended from Agnes, and Blakely 
does not question this. She gives evidence on chronological grounds that Agnes 
could not have been the wife of Robert I de Brus (Adam I's father) or of Peter I de 
Brus (Adam II's son), and then provides an argument for her having been the wife of 
the remaining possible Brus, viz. Adam I, and makes out a case for her having been 
married to her other husband, William II de Roumare after (not before, as some 
accounts have it) her Brus marriage [25-27]. The details are intricate and I'm not going 
to unpack them all here. Her conclusion is that "although the evidence is less 
conclusive than in the case of Juetta, there are sufficient pointers to suggest that this 
was indeed the case" and "well within the bounds of probability" [26, 27].

An important aspect of Blakely's argument is that this reconstruction of the 4 
marriages of Juetta and Agnes resolves a number of problems that have long dogged 
the Brus genealogy. A useful part of its development is a thoughtful assessment of the 
historical (inter-family political/economic) background to these events. Rosie, I think 
when your interloan copy gets to you you'll find that the article parallels a good part of 
your smart chronological case, and yours may in fact lend it further support.

Hope this quick sketch helps.

Cris

Parents
____ Stephen (ABT 1070 - 1127)
DE MORTIMER Hawise (BEF 1088 - 1189)

Siblings
D'AUMALE Ada (ABT 1105 - )
D'AUMALE Agnes (ABT 1115 - )

Marriage To DE BRUS Adam I (ABT 1113 - 1143)
    m.  

Notes

Parents
DE BRUS Robert (ABT 1093 - 11 May 1141)
PAYNEL Agnes (ABT 1095 - )

Children by DE BRUS Adam I ABT 1113 - 1143
DE BRUS [BRUCE] Adam (ABT 1143 - 1196)

Produced by Fzip 1.7 6/20/2017